Interview with Mark Thomas regarding the American Diploma Project Network's Next Generation State Assessment and Accountability Systems Advisory Group
Announcer: Welcome to Inside Michigan Education. A weekly show featuring interviews with community leaders, school administrators, school business officials and individuals who are passionate about the future of Michigan Education. And now, here is your host for Inside Michigan Education, Rob Huisingh.
Rob Huisingh: Welcome to Inside Michigan Education, this week we are joined in the Foxbright Podcast Studio by Mr. Mark Thomas. Mark is the Principal at Northview High School and this past week and he has been a participant in the Advisory Group for the American Diploma Project Next Generation State Assessment and Accountability Systems in Washington DC. Welcome Mark, it is a pleasure to have you on the show.
Mark Thomas: Rob, thank you so much for having me.
Rob Huisingh: Mark, what is it like, what is the American Diploma Project Network.
Mark Thomas: Well, actually this effort is done jointly by two different groups, the American Diploma Project which belongs to 'Achieve'.
'Achieve' is based out of Washington and it is a non-politically affiliated group organized by our nations governors. And what they have done is they have gone in and analyzed end-of-course assessments and looked at content standards and benchmarks across the country and done probably the most prolific work in analyzing the quality and depth of those and through their work they have come out with the American Diploma Project Network which initially started at 17 states and is now up to 30 states who have committed to raise their expectations by looking at graduation requirements, courses taken, and assessments.
So, that's the basis of their work in Washington and they have been joined in this effort by the Education Trust and K. D. Haycock is their Executive Director. The Ed Trust Mission is truly focused on improving the quality of education in urban schools.
Rob Huisingh: How is it that you got requested to be on an advisory group like this, I mean, how did this come about?
Mark Thomas: Well, I have been very fortunate and for me I am the only Principal involved in this 29-member Advisory Group and I still appreciate the opportunity because we are with the Head of the Fordham Institute, the Head of the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the Co-Director for Michigan State, Sharif Shakrani of their Educational Policy Department.
So, very water for me, but in essence my affiliation with Michigan Association of Secondary Schools of which I am the past President led me to get more involved in State Educational Policy and Programming. From that organization I was invited to become a member of the Cherry Commission, The Lt. Governor for Education and Economic Development which Governor Granholm set forth, where we went and moved away from the meet into the ACT as out basis for a state test. And then also from there the Superintendent Flanigan's Advisory Group which landed the high school graduation requirements.
So I have had the opportunity to be involved in some state political process which also is extended nationally. So, for me it was the work that Michigan has done that I have been able to be involved in that accorded the invitation.
Rob Huisingh: Excellent, now, I understand that over this past weekend you were part of this process. What were some of the desired outcomes and what kind of things did you talk about?
Mark Thomas: Well, one of the things we talked about was we have some strong, traditional, historic assessment programs in place and when you are talking about trying to create more students that are college and work ready does the high school diploma truly define that we are college and work ready? And we look across the nation and we find that we have a number of student who need to take remedial courses when the move on to the post secondary education or even in different types of jobs let's say an electrician, an automotive technician, sheet metal workers, the level of technology, reading ability, and understanding they have to do is increasing rapidly.
So, what we are intending to look at is really can be look at an assessment system that post secondary can agree upon, that the work place can agree upon, and that high schools can work with in order to try to best serve all students, because things such as the Admission Test, the ACT and the SAT are not going to go away. We have advanced placement programs, International Baccalaureate (IB), but really where the rubber meets the road is in the level and the rigor of the courses these students are taking in high school and how our high school teachers are meeting the demands of trying to intervene or remediate for some of these students to raise the standards.
Rob Huisingh: So, achieve.org hosts this opportunity for people to come out and to talk; what are some of the outcomes?
Mark Thomas: Well, I think what we are looking at in the future is looking at first of all - are there different standards for assessing career readiness? Right now, ACT has a program called WorkKeys and that also affords a National Career Readiness Certificate. Here in West Michigan we have made an area-wide commitment to working all of our student at the high school level towards the National Career Readiness Certificate and that is a portable Certificate that can go anywhere in the country for students.
One of the things too that our Workforce Development Organization is working towards is having more employers request to see the National Career Readiness Certificate form students so that they see it as a credible and valuable piece not only from the business prospective but also on the students end.
So, that is one thing; there are also other types of programs out there that even our community colleges go to. For example at Northview 88% of our kids more on to post secondary education over 50% of those chose Grad Rapids Community College, because it has a wonderful reputation, it makes tremendous amount of sense for them and so forth, but many of them have to use tests such as the Accuplacer or a COMPASS test which is a placement test that community colleges utilize.
While with the rigor are there ways that we can do more assessments in order to better diagnose where students need to be, and then even better align their courses in their junior and senior year, because we do a lot of summative, large scale, end-of-thing assessments which turn into events; but really where we gain a lot of progress is those formative assessments that go on every week, so teachers can learn right my students understand this, they don't understand that - that will raise our progress and achievements on those summative assessments.
Rob Huisingh: As a secondary school Principal you are involved on that frontline; you see what is happening as students are going out and trying to find their way in colleges and universities. What are some of the challenges that you see right now?
Mark Thomas: That is a great question, and I really think we are battling a lot of history and a lot of tradition in the State of Michigan especially with manufacturing. My father was a 47 year Tier II supplier to the automotive industry. I used to go with him into the shops and into the factories and so forth. Many of my friends after high school because I grew up directly between Flint, Saginaw, and Lansing right in the heart of manufacturing country, they left and started apprenticeship programs in Flint or Saginaw and Lansing, they started off at $22,000 a year in 1980, they moved their way up and they are making $60,000-85,000 a year they had enough to buy a cottage and they took a trip to Florida with their family and they had a boat and they were living the American dream and that's when manufacturing was going extremely well in Michigan.
So, there was a large, large percentage of people that felt like the High School Diploma was the terminal degree in the state; if you have got that you would be all set. Well, that has really changed for us in the State of Michigan and the Governor's efforts to move towards a Michigan Merit Curriculum and some required courses is not an educational initiative, it is an economic initiative. Because we know if we can grow our knowledge economy we can attract the types of business and have the types of jobs that will allow our state and our constituents to prosper.
We know also that there is going to be a need skill for service industry jobs but even then the greatest investment a person can make is an investment in themselves with education. So, I really think the greatest challenge is trying to convince parents and kids that they just can't participate in school, they need to plan it. And they are either going to pay now or pay later.
If they decide not to take the rigor and take the path of least resistance, if they wan to move on with their careers or move on with their education they are going to have to step up to that rigor and it is almost what we tell our kids, "Alright, if you don't take math in your senior year, but you want to go to college it is like saying I want to run a marathon but I am not going to train for three months. You have been training, you are in condition do you think you will be able to go out and run that marathon?"
So, I think it is a real marketing and sales piece in order to get that achieved.
Rob Huisingh: Excellent, Mark, I want to thank for taking the time to be with us and sharing this information about the Next Generation State Assessment and Accountability Systems. I hope you will come back again and keep us advised.
Mark Thomas: Thank you Rob and thank so much for what you do, I appreciate it.
Rob Huisingh: If you would like to contact Mark Thomas he can be reached by telephone at (616) 365-6122; again that is (616) 365-6122. To read more about the American Diploma Project you can visit them online at www.achieve.org; again that URL is www.achieve.org. Until next week, this is Rob Huisingh with Inside Michigan Education.
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