Interview with Daniel Quisenberry of MAPSA and the Role Public School Charter Academies can play in solving the Dropout Crisis.
Announcer: Welcome to Inside Michigan Education, a weekly show featuring interviews with community leaders, school administrators, school business officials, and individuals who are passionate about the future of Michigan Education. Now, here is your host for Inside Michigan Education, Rob Huisingh.
Rob Huisingh: Welcome to Inside Michigan Education. This week we are joined in the Foxbright Podcast Studio by Dan Quisenberry. Dan is the President of MAPSA, that's the Michigan Association of Public School Academies. Dan and I met at the recent hearing on the dropout crisis here in Grand Rapids and we saw an opportunity to talk about this issue in greater detail. Welcome Dan, it's pleasure to have you on the show.
Dan Quisenberry: Rob, it's great to be here, thanks for the opportunity.
Rob Huisingh: Dan please take just a few minutes to tell our listeners, a little bit about yourself, about your background and what is that you do with MAPSA?
Dan Quisenberry: I think you'll find no matter when you ask people care about education, so I have the privilege of working in the educational world for ten years, with Michigan's charter schools. It's a new idea, still 15 years into this, it's a brand new idea around and we got 230 new public schools and 100,000 students and so, great opportunity like last week's discussion and talk about, what matters, what's important, how we can really solve some of the challenges, that are facing us. So, I have the privilege of doing some of that as a living. It's great!
Rob Huisingh: Tell me, the organization MPASA, what does it do and what is it's objectives?
Dan Quisenberry: Yeah, great question. It's a voluntary organization of those 230 schools, so there are numbers of our organization and we provide both professional development support and services to the schools around the state, but we have conversations like this. These are new ideas, people are still used to living on a street and in a home and by their address, they are assigned to a school, that's not how charter schools work and yet they are public school in every sense of that word.
So we spent a lot of time and the schools want us to explain, what they are, how they are, how they operate and Rob, it's really fun with 230 schools, it's kind of like walking into an ice cream shop, everybody understands who is listening what ice cream, but looking at all the flavors and the variations and what you can do with them, that's the fun part. All our schools are like this, we get to talk a lot about that too with a legislature, with the media, it's a lot of fun.
Rob Huisingh: Now, that's a a lot of schools and how to do they break out, what are the dynamics of -- what kind of schools are they?
Dan Quisenberry: Yeah, absolutely. Focus is about what it should be, which is about the kids and about improving student achievement and they are doing a miraculous job with that. But as we start to think about the world today, how you accomplish that has to look different. So, we have got a school down the Benton Harbor area, it's on 75 acres and it is an agricultural focus school. I mean way beyond 4H, but urban kids from Benton Harbor and St. Joseph get really in touch and work with animals and they grow things and they learn what that is and the math and the science and the writing, all relate to that. Maybe it's performing art school, maybe it's a school that focuses on a language or a culture, we have got a lot of immigrants and non-natives in this state these days. Any of those approaches, you could take off and build a school around it.
Rob Huisingh: Now, you said that 100,000 students --
Dan Quisenberry: Yeah.
Rob Huisingh: That's a lot of students.
Dan Quisenberry: It is. Exciting new part of education, especially in some of our urban areas, the percentage if you compare it to the local school district is 15-20% sometimes, it's 5% of the statewide population. So, a very popular idea with parents and communities are starting to see it as an asset, as a resource to add to the other education systems they have.
Rob Huisingh: Please tell, because I don't fully understand the charter school process so maybe you can help me gather up a better understanding of it. You are funded very similarly to the way that a standard public school would be funded. You get a scholarship based on per student. But a typical school as I would think of a public school, would be in a region and they would be assessing millages and so how does that work with the charters?
Dan Quisenberry: Excellent question and it is Rob, you are not the only one, most people like charter schools, but don't understand them yet. But when they were created in 1994, it was when Proposal A passed and Michigan changed the way we fund public education, we do it on a per student basis, so that allowed, provided an opportunity for us to get away from geographically assigned funding and so as a parent in Michigan today, as a student in Michigan today, you can choose what public school you attend.
It can be the one, that's down the sidewalk or street, but it might be a different building within that district. It might be a district that adjoins your public school where you live and it might be a charter public school that's down the street and in all those cases, the $7000 that the state appropriates goes with the student and that's just a great opportunity for parents, you don't have to move to access, something different and something quality.
Rob Huisingh: Just the other day, I had an opportunity to tour a charter academy that was focused on the arts and sciences and that whole concept of having the teachers meet and in the mornings they might be talking about some aspect of history and in the afternoons, they might be acting it out in some kind of a play and I just found it that it was an amazing situation and children seem to like it very much and I have to say that it's my understanding that they have a waiting list of people.
Dan Quisenberry: Yeah, think about it. Anything that we as human beings are interested in performing I just certainly want and I have been to a couple of academies and they are remarkable, it's not aptitude thing, but every student that goes in there can dance, write music, performing physical arts, painting etcetera.
It might be, there is an automotive academy in the Detroit area, and for people there is probably a higher number of boys, but guys who like to get their hands on engines and tear things apart mechanically, hey, now math is relevant to me and it's a very exciting opportunity. Same kind of thing with the culture. Literally you go in some places in the states, we have people, it isn't just a English second language problem, they don't know English. They don't know our culture and so a school can be very appropriate about a dressing, the language, the culture and make it a simulation process, in the United States and still serve the needs of their student very well academically, so it's very exciting opportunity to do different things in schools.
Rob Huisingh: If I understand correctly, charter schools have to be underwritten or they have to be formed with the assistance of the some organization. How does that work?
Dan Quisenberry: Yeah, Political Science 101, a charter, you have charter townships, sometimes a university will have a charter it's a contract from one government entity to another and so charter public schools have performance contracts. Here is the amount of money, you are going to get from the state here is the academic expectations and we have other expectations, fiscal, governance etcetera. The four entities of Michigan, that can provide those contracts were one of the state universities, a community college, one of the intermediate school districts or a local school district and in every one of those cases, we have people that are chartering schools, using it as a mechanism to deliver a educational model.
Rob Huisingh: An educational model.
Dan Quisenberry: Absolutely!
Rob Huisingh: Now you and I met at the hearing for what is widely being called the dropout crisis here in Michigan, it could be across the nation. We would refer to this as -- one of the questions that came up at that hearing and it was the concept of how well do we fully understand the scope and nature of this problem and I was just wondering if you would like to talk a little bit about that.
Dan Quisenberry: Yeah, absolutely, very important issue. I would venture to say, it is the most important issue and in understand the economy in our state, I understand gas prices, but if we don't really get serious about making education work, those other two things will pale in the long-term and actually good education can solve, it will improve the economy. It might produce the person that's going to solve those energy needs. So we have to do education, that's kind of point why these conversations are critical.
The second part of it is understanding two sides of what you are identifying. Sometimes when you say dropout, I think we mistakenly think we know what that student looks like, troubled maybe academically challenged, doesn't fit in. That is not what the statistics tell us, unfortunately, it's very much the students we know might be in our own home or in our families. The statistics you read, 70% of the kids who do dropout, say they are just flat out bored, school wasn't relevant. Yes, there are life problems, whether it's an economic one, the family is moving, maybe it's a trouble that they got into but by and large, it's kids who just get bored with school and/or aren't connected in a right way, that school works for them.
Well, that's a problem we need to fix what the school look like, not fix the kids. So, yeah, very important conversation, we are honored to be part of.
Rob Huisingh: In what ways can -- let me premise this by saying, I heard a lot of presentations at the hearing, one of them happen to be a particular charter school, which was focused on those students which have been kicked out of other schools, they were just not welcome in other schools and they are welcome in this particular charter school academy and so serving a very, very specific and pointed need. I can't imagine any normal school that would be interested in saying, yes, oh come on, let's take all the kids that have been kicked out of all the other schools and here you have a school that is thriving and I was listening to some of the parents talk, it's quite an interesting place, so I can imagine, you are pretty high on what charter schools can do for these models.
Dan Quisenberry: Absolutely that particular school, yes their focus is on, you might call it just that rebellion, we all experienced a little bit of rebellion in our teenage years, well some students really are rebellious and you need a school that can be a little free wheeling like that and work and respond to their needs, but I would go back Rob, if a student is bored, let me back up a little bit more, what other institution in our society today has not had dramatic change in last 10, 15, 20 years, except public education. I mean if you and I walked in a doctor's office and it looked it did 10 or 15 or 20 years ago, we would walk back out. I would.
Rob Huisingh: That's right.
Dan Quisenberry: What kind of service I would get and we are surprised when rows of students and desk lined up listening to one person talk about the same information, from the same text books as ten years ago and they are bored with that, we shouldn't be shocked. So, it isn't just the rebellious kids, it's all kinds of school.
So, yeah Lighthouse Academy here in Grand Rapids is a great program, it's going to meet needs of kids, here but I would venture to say, all our public schools have got to look at that relevancy factors, for whatever students are reaching, they might be gifted, they might be talented or interested in other kinds of topics. So it's providing that relevancy. It's cool also, there is a long answer to your question, but it's that relationship peace, you heard a lot about those relationships. Big doesn't work any more for students, they have to -- I talked to one of our school Principals, who said, "Dan, my most important job is to know when a student changes their hairstyle." You have to know a kid to know some of that and then you say, "What's going on in your life?"
And that matters to teenagers and then you can make sure you are tying up the academics with it as well, but those are the components you were hearing the other night and yeah, for kids that are experienced a little rebellion in their life, you want a school that's willing to tackle that.
Rob Huisingh: One of the issues that which I heard over and over and over again, was the existence, when we talked about students that were or had dropped out and gotten back into school, they kept sighting the same thing and it was this issue of a significant adult mentor relationships, someone that cared enough to say, "You know what, I am not letting go. I don't care. I am not letting go. So you can do what you're going to do, that's fine, but I am not letting go of you" and it's people respond when they realize, if I am drowning and I am going to go down, that's me, but if I am drowning and I am trying to take someone else with me, that's another thing. And there is a point in place in there where people began to think outside of themselves and they think, "Wow! I look up to this person and they are not going to let go me, so I must be worth something."
And seeing that, and listening to those students talk about that relationship and then it takes me back to that same charter academy that I was at walking down the hallway, I have to say, it wasn't one or two students that said, "Hi! Dr. Stromberg (ph)" or "Hi Mr. Stromberg." it was every student and they all knew him and he said things, as we are walking on the hallway, like "Hey, looks like your tooth came out."
Dan Quisenberry: Yes, absolutely.
Rob Huisingh: It was small enough for him to know, everyone of those students was just amazed.
Dan Quisenberry: If anyone who is listening can think back and say, what was important in your K-12 experience and we will all remember some adult, who said, "You know what, you got potential. I believe in you," or inspired you in some way. I like public policy because of a political science teacher, who just took a little extra time and really inspired me for something. So, absolutely, that's vital. And yet, we have lost some of that. Our schools have become numbers games too much. Even the adults are lost in the systems at times and just have to -- that's not a criticism, it's just a recognition, that we got to do something a little different, times have changed.
Rob Huisingh: I see this article here, it's says the silent epidemic, some of the statistics are relatively ominous. Every 29 seconds, another student gives up on school, the cost to us -- lot of discussion on sustainability today and sustainability being that we are looking at planting trees that we are going harvest in 20 years and we think about our human resources and we are planting resources that we are going to harvest in another 20 years. Decisions we are making today, might not affect us today, they certainly will affect us in 20 years from now. And this concept of what legacy are we leaving, it's a fascinating process.
Dan Quisenberry: Yeah, there is two sides to that number, the kids that are not staying in school. One side is the more obvious one, what do you do in a society where the number when you're talking about a million students across the country, that are going to drop out this year, who don't have a high school education. Ouch! That's going to cost us. They are not employable in today's society. But the other side is just as true. For kids that are staying in the school, whether they make it through college or not, Rob we've got the Director of the Economic Development Authority in the state, he says we have 85000 jobs in Michigan during this economy that are gone unfilled because we don't have somebody trained to take them. That's a cost.
Rob Huisingh: Exactly!
Dan Quisenberry: Both sides of that equation means we've got to make schools, it's a new expectation, and not a criticism. Our schools, all the public school academies, we have got to retool and think, new outcomes to make sure kids are really prepared for those things. We can't afford to do that. So yeah, it's a huge cost factor.
Rob Huisingh: Well, Dan I want to thank you for taking the time to be on our show. It's been a interesting show and I appreciate, you are filling in some of my gaps and I hope you will join us again some time.
Dan Quisenberry: Absolutely! And for the listeners out there, we know we have more awareness building to do, so, if you want to go to www.charterschools.org you will learn a lot more about it, because it's a new opportunity, we appreciate that to you talk.
Rob Huisingh: Absolutely! If you would like to contact Dan Quisenberry, he can be reached on telephone at, (517)374-9167, again that telephone number is (517)374-9167 and as he mentioned earlier, you can visit MAPSA online at www.charterschools.org again that URL is www.charterschools.org. Until next week, this is Rob Huisingh and hopefully with a better voice with another episode of Inside Michigan Education.
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